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Why is it taking so long to nerf stags?

FrumpylumpsFrumpylumps ✭✭
edited September 2018 in Game Feedback
Everyone is using the same pet for pvp because that kind of extreme speed is far too advantageous in pvp. The fact they carry 700+ just makes them over the top ridiculous. Reportedly, FK devs have already mentioned nerfing stags so why is it taking so long?

The biggest issue for me, as someone who has played almost every full loot pvp game there is: You can't retaliate against someone with a stag, they are just too fast, especially in the early game when it takes multiple hits to down them. Anytime you are in trouble you can just double tap z and you are gone. By the time you can type "enemies 100 meters N of faction base", you are looted and they are gone. The portals are so close now that the same player can be in your face less than minute after you kill them right outside your faction base doors, probably critting you in the head as you are standing over their corpse, still trying to figure out what you want from it. Even the raptor is bit too fast I think. Players need the ability retaliate against aggression and punish mistakes, and pets with extreme speed rob them of that.


If stags must keep their ludicrous speed, then their carry weight should probably be reduced so much that their role would be only for the purposes of traversing the map quickly, and not pvp directly. Things like retrieving a body, scouting or getting to an outpost quickly to repair, just being able to go from point a to point b as fast as possible is extremely useful. One way they can do this is to increase the weight of heavy armors, and weapons and severely limit the carry weight to the point you could only carry a set of cloth or fur and nothing else. This might even encourage people to store basic equipment in outposts and remote personal bases.


It also seems highly problematic that in the early game, your weapons are often too weak to kill them even if you manage to land several hits while they are going 200km/per hour, and they are easier to kill, tame and ressurect than a yxen.

Comments

  • The biggest issue for me, as someone who has played almost every full loot pvp game there is: You can't retaliate against someone with a stag, they are just too fast, especially in the early game when it takes multiple hits to down them. Anytime you are in trouble you can just double tap z and you are gone. By the time you can type "enemies 100 meters N of faction base", you are looted and they are gone. The portals are so close now that the same player can be in your face less than minute after you kill them right outside your faction base doors, probably critting you in the head as you are standing over their corpse, still trying to figure out what you want from it. Even the raptor is bit too fast I think. Players need the ability retaliate against aggression and punish mistakes, and pets with extreme speed rob them of that.

    Why type when you can.. HAZ DISCORD, or TS, or any of the other popular and unpopular voice chat programs out there. I think even FK have mentioned that at some point there will be a faction voice chat.

  • Frostkeep has several possible solutions to this quick mount, quick getaway problem. They could nerf Majestic Stags, nerf quick mounting, or buff everything else. I believe that Majestic Stags are supposed to be awesome ( if not quite this awesome), and I wouldn't be surprised if other mounts become far stronger if and when pet combat and mounted combat become a thing.

    I do strongly believe that nerfing quick mounting would add some much-needed counterplay to mounted hit-and-run tactics. 


  • I don't think it is just quick getaway, but that is the larger part of it. The map is too small for how fast they are so they can cover too much area too quickly. You can scout the entirety of hearthhome in 5 minutes and it takes less than a minute to go from your faction base to theirs on a stag. I feel like this gives aggressors on the early game too big of an advantage because stags.

    Stags are also one of the easiest pets to tame and kill and their ressurect costs did not change like other pets.
  • I might be perfectly fine with stags going at insane speeds if the 'netcode' gets to the point of being able to handle it. Unfortunately, right now the netcode breaks down when objects start moving that fast. If someone is mounted on a stag and moving that fast and is turning to evade, they start jumping around on the screen. I'm gonna guess the client doesn't get updated object locations with sufficient frequency to deal with objects moving that fast and changing their direction that frequently.

    Beyond that, I've not dealt with stags directly in PvP. They seem a little silly in the videos I've seen posted, and thus my base instinct is that something in the summon/mounting mechanics needs some change. Part of what may be taking a bunch of time is for FK to figure out what they want to do, which requires internal testing... which requires numerous internal builds of the game to see what seems to work. Do they want to nerf stag speeds? Do they want to keep their speed as is, see if they can get the 'netcode' to work better with it, and instead nerf carry weight and/or hp? Do they want to change the pet mechanics to either add a cast time to mount or to summon pets? Do they want to prohibit mounting for x seconds after taking damage? Those are just the possibilities that come to mind off the top of my head.

    Despite how outspoken I am about things needing to change and the fact that I like to put forth, sometimes very specific and difficult, solutions... my bachelors is in game design, I'm working on an independent project (nothing even on Rend's scale, yet) and I know that often making a choice on how to deal with a particular situation isn't simple. Video games are more fun if you get to feel awesome. I think if I was in FK's position, I'd want to keep stags insane movement speed because it's fun, but that means more systems changes to let the game really support it.
  • I still think the point you brought up a while ago about pet rating and how it scales is the primary issue here.
  • Stags are surely too fast, yes they are meant to be fast, but how fast they are ruins the game.

    High level stags walk faster than most pets sprint.

    They cross the world in less than 1 minute, especially with portals moved.

    beyond that, the Stamina and Carry Weight of them are much higher than the other pets.
    Only the carry specific - EXTREMELY slow pets have more carry weight
    The Roc are the only pets i know of with more stamina, again slow as heck.

    Once the higher tier harvest is removed properly, the only pet people will use is Stags.
    Cigars keep me sane
  • Pet rating is too exponential. The sub 300 pets of most types need a bit of a buff and the post 500 speed and carry capacities for stags need nerfed somewhat.

    More importantly, there needs to be a 2 second channeled cast time to mount a pet. Moving interrupts it, but PvP damage does not. You'll probably take an arrow to the head in the mean time though.

    Also, the trailer showed mounted combat. If and when that goes in, doing something like a 20% reduction in speed for 2 seconds after you shoot the pet would fix most of these issues as players could get one shot in while on a stag themselves, and then continue to pursue.
  • That video should probably get pulled at some point, last I heard anything on the subject FK had opted against mounted weapon combat. They just couldn't get a system that felt good to them.
  • They are probably thinking about what the best fix is. Needs to be consistent with their overall vision. Needs to be a 2 second mount timer... maybe, maybe they have something else planned. One bandaid on an unfinished mechanic creates a need for continual fixes and bandaids, taking resources and development hours from realizing their actual vision.
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