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Do you want a faction warehouse?

13

Comments

  • edited July 2018
    Yes
    Leonerdo wrote: »
    @Leonerdo Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

    Yeah okay, if you're just going to laugh at people for sharing their honest opinions, then I'm done reading anything you have to say. I hope I never have to cooperate with you in a faction, cause that seems like a pretty tall order.

    I don't think he will help his faction because he plays on my server and I believe he is in the clan who said they would not use main base at all and instead a clan base only for themselves, after steam release. I can't be sure but I think he's with those guys.

    This is why we need a warehouse. Not having it will separate factions in to clans and only the solo players MIGHT be using the main base.
  • Yes
    Gatsu wrote: »
    Leonerdo wrote: »
    @Leonerdo Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

    Yeah okay, if you're just going to laugh at people for sharing their honest opinions, then I'm done reading anything you have to say. I hope I never have to cooperate with you in a faction, cause that seems like a pretty tall order.

    I don't think he will help his faction because he plays on my server and I believe he is in the clan who said they would not use main base at all and instead a clan base only for themselves, after steam release. I can't be sure but I think he's with those guys.

    @Gatsu Definitely not. My team has been experimenting with builds to improve faction storage to be at least a bit tolerable on a private server. We've discussed making a bit of a base nearby to make sure trolls have to walk a bit but it'd generally be open to anyone in the faction that's communicative but still not even sure we're going to do that.

    And what @Leonerdo quoted was the definition of taking things out of context. I laughed and then wrote quite seriously on why his initial point (that entire reply) makes absolutely no sense.

    You can try to extrapolate what you want from the tone of my reply but I don't think I have a team of almost 20 people from being an asshole but if you write up a completely uninformed opinion prepare for a slightly crass reply. I wasn't really being sarcastic, I honestly was wondering if you'd played the game enough to get to be the den mother for your faction and have to re-sort the well organized, well labeled boxes for the millionth time in a single day.

    I apologize if my reply was a bit mean. I've been pushing this idea for a while back when it originally became clear base organization was a night-terror with only 5 people and I took it a bit too seriously when you wrote an opinion that awe struck me.
  • edited July 2018
    Yes
    @Gatsu Definitely not. My team has been experimenting with builds to improve faction storage to be at least a bit tolerable on a private server. We've discussed making a bit of a base nearby to make sure trolls have to walk a bit but it'd generally be open to anyone in the faction that's communicative but still not even sure we're going to do that.


    This is why we need a warehouse. The players ideas of solutions to faction templaying are workarounds which aren't ever enough to actually solve the problems. The only actual solution we, as players, can do is to split a faction up in clans and use personal bases only. It's also way less risky to have a clan base than to have your resources in main base public boxes.
  • Yes
    @Gatsu Don't gotta tell me. Which server are you on that had you thinking I was one of some clan you saw talking about hoarding everything?
  • edited July 2018
    Yes
    @Gatsu Don't gotta tell me. Which server are you on that had you thinking I was one of some clan you saw talking about hoarding everything?

    I'm saying it to you but for the devs to read. EU-3, blame YoloSwagland for this. He was the one talking in chat.
  • Yes
    @Gatsu Oh, no idea when that was said. Not our group plan and Yolo is part of our crew.
  • LeonerdoLeonerdo ✭✭
    edited July 2018
    No
    This thread is barely holding together... I'll try not not make it worse.

    This is a game that is inevitably going to involve a lot of communication among faction mates (with the best teams probably using voice chat). It sucks if half of that chatter is dedicated just to corralling people to pick up after themselves in base. I recognize that this is a serious problem.

    However, warehouses go too far in the other direction, towards not needing communication at all. I've played plenty of MMOs where you queue for a dungeon, assume everyone knows what they are doing, and never say a word. (And then parties fall apart if someone doesn't actually know what they're doing.) I'm tired of that "on a team, but working alone" half-assed kind of cooperation.

    I just want a nice middle ground. We obviously need enough control to stop people from trolling. Like OldGuard said, we need enough control that the faction majority can "force" players not to make a mess of things. But at the same time, I want enough freedom that the base builders can design their own organization systems. So that people can have differing opinions, and we can come to compromises. So that bases look fundamentally different, based on the preferences of the faction and the organization solutions that they come up with. And as I've said before, yes that is a challenge, but it's meant to be a challenging game, where the better team (with organization/communication) can show their skill and benefit from it.

    Ideally. when people don't know where to find/put something, they just talk about it. And if it's a recurring issue, then maybe the base builders can move things around to accomodate that feedback. That is what cooperation is.

    If teams fall apart just trying to find storage solutions, then they are probably going to suffer the entire game anyways, as they move into harder biomes and start having to deal with team-based PvP. I think it's perfectly appropriate to task the players with cooperating on base organizing first (something low-risk), before they start having to take on group expeditions/taming/advancement/PvP (many of which are inherently high-risk/stressful).
    ______________________________________

    Okay now... looking back, I don't think I've made my "middle ground" stance clear enough. In the interest of keeping this thread from getting more polarized, here's where I think I agree with the majority:

    We NEED better ways to combat trolls and corral new players. At the least, that means we need easy access to reputation-controlled boxes or material-restricted boxes. Honestly, all chests should have those controls available by default.

    And we need better ways to communicate across timezones (offline persistent communication). Signs, markers, highlights, notes, whatever.

    Lastly, while I think players should be challenged with this problem to an extent, I think it's currently a bit TOO tedious to just drop materials off in the base (which is a large part of why messy people leave things wherever is easiest). Something like an AoE "deposit all materials" function would go a long way. Something that would take all your materials, search nearby boxes (within, let's say, 5 meters), and put your mats next to the corresponding ones that are already in those boxes. Any type of material that isn't in those boxes already, stays in your inventory. So you would still have to find the right box (or the right area), but you don't have to open each box, or deposit each material separately. (Hopefully y'all noticed that I've suggested this before, but I'm trying to compromise more by adding in the AoE part.)
    ____________________________________

    Y'all are probably tired of hearing my skewed perspective by now. (Aren't all perspectives a little skewed?) And I think I've thoroughly beat this dead horse enough. So I'll be checking out of this thread. Unless someone directly addresses me, of course; I don't want to be rude. Later, y'all.
  • No
    And what @Leonerdo quoted was the definition of taking things out of context. I laughed and then wrote quite seriously on why his initial point (that entire reply) makes absolutely no sense.

    You can try to extrapolate what you want from the tone of my reply but I don't think I have a team of almost 20 people from being an asshole but if you write up a completely uninformed opinion prepare for a slightly crass reply. I wasn't really being sarcastic, I honestly was wondering if you'd played the game enough to get to be the den mother for your faction and have to re-sort the well organized, well labeled boxes for the millionth time in a single day.

    I apologize if my reply was a bit mean. I've been pushing this idea for a while back when it originally became clear base organization was a night-terror with only 5 people and I took it a bit too seriously when you wrote an opinion that awe struck me.

    I accept your apology. I was too quick to judge.

    But you have to be more aware of how people on the internet will take things. After all, you did laugh, and you did ask/doubt if I had played the game at all. Sarcastic or not, it's very belittling.

    And while I may not have 100s of hours in survival games, and even less in this particular one, I wouldn't call my opinion "uninformed". It's not like we're discussing end-game or deep strategies. We're talking about communication and inventory management, which isn't exclusive to this game or genre.

    I might even say that literally anyone could have valid opinions on this topic, just because communication and physical organization is a part of real life too. But that's a little too naive, even for me. :)
  • No
    "What is the spirit of Rend?"

    Really ?
    You ask this question when you know you're playing a faction game ?

    Erf, if you don't know what is the Rend spirit, i understand why you want to change it.

    "-Is that your personal opinion or fact."

    You want to "force" players to coop. Or, the game difficulty IS TO LET PLAYER DO IT BY THEMSELVES.
    And this is not my opinion, it's facts.

    "-Where are the boundaries of the definition of the spirit of rend?"

    Look the trailer and you can understand.
    Do you have played the game ?

    "-what makes this idea going against it based on the definition?"

    Already answered in the second question.

    "And yes, I said force.
    But it is not me, who wants to force other people. I want the Faction Majority to be able to force individual player to follow a rule, not forcing him to do sth., but forcing him to not to do sth."

    1 - Yes, it's you. you have voted "yes" and defend your opinion. You want to force players to be organized with automatic tools than organized by themselves.
    2 - This is the point of the game : YOU have to "force" others BY YOUR OWN, not by a gameplay trick.
    You have to motive your teamates. To talk to them. To remind them "hey, we're a faction, not randoms".

    You don't like solo players ? So why encourage them with a thing like a warehouse ?
    you want faction players ? So speak with them, it's your role and the goal of the game.

    If you continue with your "i don't understand the point of the game", just leave please.
    You can't understand it ? Ok, but you didn't have the right to change it.
  • Yes
    @Leonerdo I think maybe the issue is you're overthinking this problem. It's not a simple communication failure. What has been explained here a couple times and not just from me is that even with friends you end up with insanely disorganized stuff. And I think that correlation you tried to make about not being able to coordinate storage to not being able to hack it together later in the game is a real reach.

    I don't think this is an objective thing. You really need to have experienced it repeatedly to see how this works. Friends, random people, friends with random people; I've seen it all. It always breaks down and you basically accept it and just keep your personal stuff organized, let your friends and/or randoms get their stuff together and get out there to get stuff done.

    I don't mind your AoE depositing idea but I can tell you exactly how it'd go. People will get tired of running around base spamming the hotkey to deposit stuff and just go back to dumping it in the first box when they get back into base.

    The other thing I take issue with on your point of view is that you see it as a communication problem when in reality it's a personality problem. I don't think most new people or faction-mates in general are trashing base storage because they can't handle reading labels or following guidance in faction chat from multiple teammates. They just unconsciously drop stuff into whatever beox because they don't really mind looking for stuff later. It's just a difference in how people's brains work. Like visual learners vs aural learners. Not everyone works the same. If they did, communication would be the simple solution. I can tell you from playing back before they had the labels for boxes and seeing the transition, it didn't change a thing. Helped me remember where I wanted to keep stuff and the others that like keeping things organized. But the people that just don't care about it, nada. Didn't encourage them at all.

    Cheers for reading.
  • Yes
    LayKny wrote: »
    1 - Yes, it's you. you have voted "yes" and defend your opinion. You want to force players to be organized with automatic tools than organized by themselves.
    2 - This is the point of the game : YOU have to "force" others BY YOUR OWN, not by a gameplay trick.
    You have to motive your teamates. To talk to them. To remind them "hey, we're a faction, not randoms".

    You don't like solo players ? So why encourage them with a thing like a warehouse ?
    you want faction players ? So speak with them, it's your role and the goal of the game.

    If you continue with your "i don't understand the point of the game", just leave please.
    You can't understand it ? Ok, but you didn't have the right to change it.

    And you're supposed to do exactly what if people won't change their personality and conform to your storage dichotomy? Leave and find a new server? Shoot them until they leave and hope someone new doesn't do the same stuff?
  • Yes
    LayKny said:
    "What is the spirit of Rend?"

    Really ?
    You ask this question when you know you're playing a faction game ?

    Erf, if you don't know what is the Rend spirit, i understand why you want to change it.

    "-Is that your personal opinion or fact."

    You want to "force" players to coop. Or, the game difficulty IS TO LET PLAYER DO IT BY THEMSELVES.
    And this is not my opinion, it's facts.

    "-Where are the boundaries of the definition of the spirit of rend?"

    Look the trailer and you can understand.
    Do you have played the game ?

    "-what makes this idea going against it based on the definition?"

    Already answered in the second question.

    "And yes, I said force.
    But it is not me, who wants to force other people. I want the Faction Majority to be able to force individual player to follow a rule, not forcing him to do sth., but forcing him to not to do sth."

    1 - Yes, it's you. you have voted "yes" and defend your opinion. You want to force players to be organized with automatic tools than organized by themselves.
    2 - This is the point of the game : YOU have to "force" others BY YOUR OWN, not by a gameplay trick.
    You have to motive your teamates. To talk to them. To remind them "hey, we're a faction, not randoms".

    You don't like solo players ? So why encourage them with a thing like a warehouse ?
    you want faction players ? So speak with them, it's your role and the goal of the game.

    If you continue with your "i don't understand the point of the game", just leave please.
    You can't understand it ? Ok, but you didn't have the right to change it.
    If you read thoroughly through your comment, you will see, that you have not answered any of the questions I have written down. I wrote them down, not because I do not know the answers, but I wanted to see, whether you can answer and prove me your answers with your current point of view. Which would also prove your ability to argue in an educated and correct way regarding the formalities in a normal debate. If you cannot do that, there is no need in arguing with you anymore, as it only shows, that your only interest is to troll people here. I think you will get another chance to show us, now. Please try to use it.
  • OldGuardOldGuard
    edited July 2018
    Yes
    LayKny said:
    "What is the spirit of Rend?"

    Really ?
    You ask this question when you know you're playing a faction game ?

    Erf, if you don't know what is the Rend spirit, i understand why you want to change it.

    "-Is that your personal opinion or fact."

    You want to "force" players to coop. Or, the game difficulty IS TO LET PLAYER DO IT BY THEMSELVES.
    And this is not my opinion, it's facts.

    "-Where are the boundaries of the definition of the spirit of rend?"

    Look the trailer and you can understand.
    Do you have played the game ?

    "-what makes this idea going against it based on the definition?"

    Already answered in the second question.

    "And yes, I said force.
    But it is not me, who wants to force other people. I want the Faction Majority to be able to force individual player to follow a rule, not forcing him to do sth., but forcing him to not to do sth."

    1 - Yes, it's you. you have voted "yes" and defend your opinion. You want to force players to be organized with automatic tools than organized by themselves.
    2 - This is the point of the game : YOU have to "force" others BY YOUR OWN, not by a gameplay trick.
    You have to motive your teamates. To talk to them. To remind them "hey, we're a faction, not randoms".

    You don't like solo players ? So why encourage them with a thing like a warehouse ?
    you want faction players ? So speak with them, it's your role and the goal of the game.

    If you continue with your "i don't understand the point of the game", just leave please.
    You can't understand it ? Ok, but you didn't have the right to change it.
    If you read thoroughly through your comment, you will see, that you have not answered any of the questions I have written down. I wrote them down, not because I do not know the answers, but I wanted to see, whether you can answer and prove me your answers with your point of view. Which would also prove your ability to argue in a correct way with regard to the formalities in a debate. Not answering me that only shows, that you are only here to troll people. In that case a further discussion with you has no sense at all.

    But as I try not to judge that hard, I post the questions again in a more understandable way. Please try to answer them for the community clearly.

    -What is the spirit of Rend? Please give a Definition.

    -Is the given definition your personal opinion or fact.

    -If the definition is fact, prove that it is fact by reliable quotes.

    -Where are the boundaries of the spirit of rend? Try to explain them based on the definition.

    -what makes this idea of a warehouse going against the spirit of Rend based on the definition?

    Please try again.
  • No
    @Leonerdo I think maybe the issue is you're overthinking this problem. It's not a simple communication failure. What has been explained here a couple times and not just from me is that even with friends you end up with insanely disorganized stuff. And I think that correlation you tried to make about not being able to coordinate storage to not being able to hack it together later in the game is a real reach.

    I don't think this is an objective thing. You really need to have experienced it repeatedly to see how this works. Friends, random people, friends with random people; I've seen it all. It always breaks down and you basically accept it and just keep your personal stuff organized, let your friends and/or randoms get their stuff together and get out there to get stuff done.

    I don't mind your AoE depositing idea but I can tell you exactly how it'd go. People will get tired of running around base spamming the hotkey to deposit stuff and just go back to dumping it in the first box when they get back into base.

    The other thing I take issue with on your point of view is that you see it as a communication problem when in reality it's a personality problem. I don't think most new people or faction-mates in general are trashing base storage because they can't handle reading labels or following guidance in faction chat from multiple teammates. They just unconsciously drop stuff into whatever beox because they don't really mind looking for stuff later. It's just a difference in how people's brains work. Like visual learners vs aural learners. Not everyone works the same. If they did, communication would be the simple solution. I can tell you from playing back before they had the labels for boxes and seeing the transition, it didn't change a thing. Helped me remember where I wanted to keep stuff and the others that like keeping things organized. But the people that just don't care about it, nada. Didn't encourage them at all.

    Cheers for reading.

    Alright, I'll concede to your experience with so many different kinds of groups, friends/randos/etc. Some people (maybe most people) will always drop their stuff on the ground as soon as they get in (not unlike people who just drop everything and relax when they get home from work/school) and clean up when they need to, or just pick things off the ground when they need them. Even if they just have to make 3-5 quick stops (1 minute) to put things away...

    I'm starting to get the picture that even if organization were careful curated and forced, that most people just wouldn't be happy with it, and that it would take too much work (by one person) to set up all the necessary restrictions and storage spaces. I mean, just looking at this thread, I see about 12 people care enough to make a comment, and 48 voted (mostly "Yes"). So about 3/4 of the voters just want easy storage -- no fuss, no work, it's not even worth their time to talk about.

    I did say I would bow out if it made the most people happy, so yeah. The people have spoken, through action (or inaction?), through votes, and a few through words. (A lot of words. Geezus this thread is long. Maybe I shoulda quit after making 1 comment.) I may not agree, but I'll get over it. Even if the game is a little blander in the base, there's still a thousand other fun and challenging things in the game.

    Cheers.
  • UzielUziel
    edited July 2018
    Yes
    Well, I've read through the thread. What I have come away with is that the main faction base is not as important as I previously thought, or as mandatory I guess.

    I'm on board with a material supply dock/warehouse. I'm not here to play an inventory management simulator. I'd like to look at this dock, see what materials the faction has (with filters or tabs), and decide to either use some of it to craft (and the stations draw directly from the supply dock) or I can go gather resources I see that we're low on to contribute to the faction in some way if I'm not currently grouped with anyone. I would think that if materials were added to the supply dock, there would not be an option to remove those materials.

    As far as troll control and newbie corralling, there are a few ways I can think of that would mitigate material waste.

    1) Reputation lock materials/recipes by tier.

    2) Lock material use to a baseline limit, like Roughwood Logs can only be diminished to 100 by people under a certain reputation. I think this may be the best option.

    Individual chests/containers should stay though and come with options to limit access or completely lock out others.

    edits: forgot words
  • Yes
    Uziel wrote: »
    1) Reputation lock materials/recipes by tier.

    2) Lock material use to a baseline limit, like Roughwood Logs can only be diminished to 100 by people under a certain reputation. I think this may be the best option.

    Individual chests/containers should stay though and come with options to limit access or completely lock out others.

    #1 I've definitely seen before and #2 is fuckin' brilliant. Instead of rep locking access to materials on a basic level just rep lock how low someone can drain the materials to. Like that a lot.
  • Yes
    LayKny said:
    "What is the spirit of Rend?"

    Really ?
    You ask this question when you know you're playing a faction game ?

    Erf, if you don't know what is the Rend spirit, i understand why you want to change it.

    "-Is that your personal opinion or fact."

    You want to "force" players to coop. Or, the game difficulty IS TO LET PLAYER DO IT BY THEMSELVES.
    And this is not my opinion, it's facts.

    "-Where are the boundaries of the definition of the spirit of rend?"

    Look the trailer and you can understand.
    Do you have played the game ?

    "-what makes this idea going against it based on the definition?"

    Already answered in the second question.

    "And yes, I said force.
    But it is not me, who wants to force other people. I want the Faction Majority to be able to force individual player to follow a rule, not forcing him to do sth., but forcing him to not to do sth."

    1 - Yes, it's you. you have voted "yes" and defend your opinion. You want to force players to be organized with automatic tools than organized by themselves.
    2 - This is the point of the game : YOU have to "force" others BY YOUR OWN, not by a gameplay trick.
    You have to motive your teamates. To talk to them. To remind them "hey, we're a faction, not randoms".

    You don't like solo players ? So why encourage them with a thing like a warehouse ?
    you want faction players ? So speak with them, it's your role and the goal of the game.

    If you continue with your "i don't understand the point of the game", just leave please.
    You can't understand it ? Ok, but you didn't have the right to change it.
    You have not even answered one single question of mine to your point of view.
    I did not asked you those questions, because I did not know all of the answers, but also to see, whether you are able to make your point clear in a social and correct way in terms of formalities in a debate. With regards to the answers or better to the lack of answers I do not think, that it makes sense, to continue argue with you, @LayKny , as long as you do not show me your capability of arguing objectively on this, without trying to offend your debating partner personally.
  • Yes
    As a guy who has spent multiple hours organising the chests in a base just to watch people on the discord that i was talking to come in and chuck their shit anywhere even as i protested, and then even more people not on discord and not reading faction chat do the same, it's not really a "challenge" having an organised base. It's tedious. Who the hell gets a messy room with clothes n shit everywhere and think "Hm, cleaning this will be a challenge, how fun!" No one that i have seen has suggested we remove chests. They have suggested adding MORE options for storage. If you don't like the idea how it stands, modify it! Too much of a challenge? suggest a nerf! COMPROMISE
  • DarinthDarinth ✭✭✭
    Yes
    Uziel wrote: »
    ...and #2 is fuckin' brilliant...

    Ohh... sure... he suggests limiting how low a material can be drained and it's fucking brilliant... I suggest it and you don't even pay attention... :P
  • Yes
    @Darinth Oh, shit. Did you? In all the huge books people have written on here I might have missed it but I swear I read all your stuff. Or did you mean you've written that on Discord before? :D
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