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[Suggestion] 3 ways to victory.

A lot of players have offered suggestions on improving the current victory condition. I thought I'd toss my own idea in the hat:

Factions can win by one of 3 ways

1. Spirit Victory: This is the current victory and while fine in concept, it of course needs a lot of balancing. Only 1 spirit dropping off wisps in hearthome, scaling gradually to at most 10 spirits per wisp in the most dangerous and/or faction contested areas. Making more crafting recipes require spirit residue, or larger quantities of it, will also integrate this victory into gameplay better.

2. Research victory: Add a final milestone research on each of the 4 trees. As with all milestones, factions will need to research 3 of the previous (final) tier upgrades in each category, and then research the milestone. The game already notifies with a global message on each milestone achieved, and adding a progress notification to those messages would be a nice touch. "Revenant has achieved Mysticism mastery. 2 milestones remaining!"

3. Relic victory: Each faction has a relic on a pedestal next to their faction tree. Enemy players can pick it up by interacting with it, placing it in their inventory. The relic places a debuff on the carrier such as: carry capacity, attack damage, armor, and movement speed reduced by half, mounting pets not allowed, and a giant beam of light ala corpse notifications, but brighter and bigger. If a faction successfully raids a base and gets the relic back home to their tree, it will be stored on their relic pedestal. Once a faction has all 3 relics (their own as well as the other 2 factions), their shield goes down and stays down for a period of time, maybe 24 hours. If they still have posession of all 3 relics at the end of the period of time, they win the game.
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Comments

  • 3. is a very nice concept
  • Yep. Good ideas.
  • I'm totally loving the number 3 idea!
  • 3rd is similar to what i was thinking to suggest. instead of making a different thread i'll post here.

    Considering that this game has mixed 3 genres, MMO, Survival, Moba. i decided to look which elements are not full in game. looks like survival and MMO part of game is in good shape and just needs minor fine tuning (like balancing abilities and etc.). However the Moba part is one that needs some more work.

    Moba part here is present, we have set up timely attacks. it's 3 factions competing for supremacy. Every moba is a PVP game, PVE in a moba, is a side game, such as clearing creeps for xp and etc. Here in Rend the pve part we can relate to farming mats and teching up for better gear. PvP is present but its negated by soul farm, which by it self is a bad winning measurement mechanic.

    Removing souls would damage the whole game, so i thought, why dont we use it in a different way and offer more than one simultaneous way for victory, while promoting main one, which is pvp victory.

    Here is a simplified idea which i rolled out. The whole souls thing becomes only a mater of measurement but is not the way to win. The sole way to win is destroying opponent's base. To avoid saga to go forever, the time frame of a month is set.

    primary condition: first week is farming week, nothing happens, bases cannot be destroyed, but can be robbed. This is so that sneaky enemy can't destroy your base without letting you to enjoy the actual game. after first game when people had time to tech up some and etc. actual battles starts. only 1 becomes a winner. Also this first week, is the other time frame new people can join the battle, after first week server gets locked, new people cant join. 3 factions compete to survive, by killing off the other 2 factions. faction that looses their base will leave the server (their zone is going to be locked, people wont be able to log in). resources from that faction (like tin copper and ect) will start spawning on territories of other 2 factions. Portals to destroyed faction are locked. they get their share of ascension points. the other 2 factions continue the fight until one kills the other. After that happens, saga ends. teams get their points.

    secondary condition: If battle lasts forever the time measurement is taken. servers will have hard reset and time frame, they will last a month strong, then saga will reset with clearly defined victor. The time option for victory is only there to make sure sagas are not drawn out forever. Winner will be defined out of the remaining factions, one with most souls will win.There should be no set amount of souls to hand in for victory. it's endless. that way people wont have to just set goal and roll with pacman sim, instead they would have to pvp.

    Pretty much this system will force pvp, the moba factor, and make sure there is no snow balling. week of tech is your PVE go about week, all nearly safe and secure. than battle starts and lasts 3 weeks or until 1 faction remains. This way there wont be a reason to farm souls, as they are not going to grant you the victory. it would be safer to try and kill enemies instead of farming souls, simply because souls dont grant you victory any more, they can only help you win if battle drags out through the month and at the end of calculation. So pac man sim is out of question now. people will farm souls as they go about their chores for teching and focusing on pvp.

    Game will clearly be set as PVP, PVE people could still farm mats, build walls and etc, but after first week will have to be careful as the actual battle starts.


    Only thing leaves to solve now is how to balance sides. Here i would suggest that all official servers become only one "play" button similar to mobas. people are thrown in through a match maker, which should take into consideration average hours person plays a day (since this will be the most affecting factor in winning here). MM would split people evenly on factions. people will be locked in until saga commences. (people whose side looses first, can come out and go into another saga). As far as friends/clans, it shouldnt match all friends to one side and only pugs on others. let's say a group of 5 friends goes to one sides and 2 groups of 2 and 3 friends go to the other side to balance it off.

    PRIVATE SERVERS: they work same way they do now. while people wit for next saga to start from queue. they can join those. they get their own button, which you click and server window as we know now pops up.

    Last thing to mention. queues to set up sagas could take more than 5 minutes. since it's a battle you'll be locked in for full months. and people might loose their base earlier, and need to wait for another server's faction to come out loosing etc. Therefore. you joind allow people to click "play" and join the queue, but the Saga server, will probably take 1-3 days to form (similar to current server reset). once Saga is ready to st
  • Those are pretty cool ideas that dont really change the game from what its trying to be so that would be cool1
  • I like that idea. Doesn't help with snowballing but it they can address that, it would be fun.
  • Zaphieon wrote: »
    3. is a very nice concept

    each realm has a relic sounds like an idea stolen from dark age of Camelot to me.


  • 123456 wrote: »
    Zaphieon wrote: »
    3. is a very nice concept

    each realm has a relic sounds like an idea stolen from dark age of Camelot to me.


    Or capture the flag, or literally any other million games/mods that have a similar mechanic. I'm sure 3 way CTF with literal flags has been done as well. Nearly everything is stolen from everything else in movies, music, video games, etc at this point. Best a dev team can hope to do is do it better, or combine 2 or 3 genres together in a way that hasn't been done before.
  • Suma wrote: »

    3. Relic victory:.

    Bump this idea. I dig it.

    I also suggested trade routes/alliances which I though would be a nice touch for further faction on faction interaction.
  • The more ways to win the better IMHO. I don't know about the research victory though. It sounds exactly like spirit victory just with sparks instead of spirits, and there is no counter play to it as even if your base is completely wiped by the enemy there is no way for them to remove your research progress. The CTF victory sounds intriguing think you could have a lot of fun with that one, and it solves a few issues with the current game.
  • DarinthDarinth ✭✭✭
    I'm usually a big fan of alternatives... but in this case I have to acknowledge I'm far more wary. While it looks like more options might discourage people from going only towards one exit strategy, in this particular case it becomes a balancing nightmare. Each of these victory conditions needs to be balanced against the other ones in terms of how it could be achieved in order to reduce the fact that the hard-core theory crafters will absolutely break the game down to it's base components and crunch numbers on which victory condition is the most effective, and what the most effective way to achieve it would be.

    Honestly, I feel like a single more well-thought-out victory condition would serve the game better than having several of them. Beyond that, I have to acknowledge that the victory condition a lot of people here have picked as actually very contradictory to Rend's goals. Rend is designed in many ways to be a longer game. If FK achieves what I think their goal is, it'll be a month long game where you get to slowly enjoy moving forward and advancing your technology, spending a week or so with the best stuff, until finally everything comes together you have a final event and the server resets.

    Ideally, the win condition should simply be something that is an inherently enjoyable part of the game. Something that really emphasizes and rewards people who are good at the game's other aspects (PvE, PvP, basebuilding/surviving the reckoning, etc...).
  • Blellow wrote: »
    The more ways to win the better IMHO. I don't know about the research victory though. It sounds exactly like spirit victory just with sparks instead of spirits, and there is no counter play to it as even if your base is completely wiped by the enemy there is no way for them to remove your research progress. The CTF victory sounds intriguing think you could have a lot of fun with that one, and it solves a few issues with the current game.
    Darinth wrote: »
    I'm usually a big fan of alternatives... but in this case I have to acknowledge I'm far more wary. While it looks like more options might discourage people from going only towards one exit strategy, in this particular case it becomes a balancing nightmare. Each of these victory conditions needs to be balanced against the other ones in terms of how it could be achieved....

    The idea is that the research victory takes the longest of the 3 victories but has no counterplay. Spirit victory needs more counterplay than it has now. Make it a little more based off holding control points and a little less from wisps. It needs to be easier to remove more spirits from the faction tree on a successful raid (have the spirits float out into the world on siege damage to the tree and despawn after the reckoning is over), and easier to catch stag spirit farmers. Research victory takes by far the longest, but by the point you have 3 uber skills in each of the 4 trees, the server definitely is ready for a reset. Relic victory is the hardest to achieve but the smallest time investment. And its there so that if one faction runs away leading hard over the other 2 factions, they can win and reset the server quickly.

    You don't need to balance the 3 victories because they all serve different purposes. 1) Is the standard way to win but successful sieges slow it down a lot. 2) is the ticking timer that resets a server where people play far too long on one map. And 3) is the reset for when something happens like a first reckoning double faction stomp (which happened on Rockjaw).

  • DarinthDarinth ✭✭✭
    I can appreciate the concept, but I'd much rather see what they've got in store to help deal with snowballing and keeping the servers alive longer. If they can simply make the game enjoyable all the way in to the late game more effectively, than I'd rather not worry about objectives that take more/less time to achieve. I'd rather make sure that the sagas last and that I have the opportunity to enjoy the late game.
  • edited August 2018
    I don't like the research idea because its to easy. I think it should be they have to master EVERY single piece of tech in all trees, to win by that condition. meaning all minor unlocks at every tier in every research tree.
    The relic idea is ok but I would add that they constantly get attacked by max level lost for 24 hours and players can come attack at the same time. the lost can steal the relics and take them to the spirit world, and if the lost get all 3 all factions lose and no one gets any bonus ascension points for that saga only what they gained during play.

    this will have multiple effects in that some of the opposing factions may need to band together to prevent the lost from winning, do they want to risk stealing the relics? ( a relic that is never stolen by players has a shield the protects it from the lost)

    it adds risk vs reward to it. do we risk losing all bonus ascension to try for victory? or do we go another route?
  • I like these ideas. I think having more ways to win would cater for a few different play styles. It would also give some factions alternatives if they don’t have the numbers to engage in pvp as much. 

    The outposts could also also be used whereby if you can get all three home bases you gain some other buffs which may provide souls as well as sparks. Just another pvp dynamic. 
  • I like these ideas. I think having more ways to win would cater for a few different play styles. It would also give some factions alternatives if they don’t have the numbers to engage in pvp as much. 

    The outposts could also also be used whereby if you can get all three home bases you gain some other buffs which may
  • All of these would be great an award several play styles and not just grinding spirits cause imo that isn't fun.
  • I like these ideas. I think having more ways to win would cater for a few different play styles. It would also give some factions alternatives if they don’t have the numbers to engage in pvp as much. 

    The outposts could also also be used whereby if you can get all three home bases you gain some other buffs which may provide souls as well as sparks. Just another pvp dynamic. 
  • I like these ideas. I think having more ways to win would cater for a few different play styles. It would also give some factions alternatives if they don’t have the numbers to engage in pvp as much. 

    The outposts could also also be used whereby if you can get all three home bases you gain some other buffs which may
  • I like the ideas in general that you can win the game on different ways.

    The current way to win is farming 100k spirits in 2 days. I call it player versus spirits / pvs (no need to pvp, no need to pve vs mobs either).

    The game is designed for the spirit story. (so lets balance it that you can't rush it, but adjusting the numbers won't fix the current issue. It would delay the win but ppl are not only complaining about that player can win super quick they also say that this mechanic in general is pretty boring because you can avoid PvP easily.

    People gonna say the following: but if we delay it we can attack more often and siege the winning team.. yes and no.
    No, because the current siege mechanics are broken. Counter Repair is a big thing ... One Dev said there are other siege "tools".
    Hint to the bombs obviously. but the bombs don't even work well. (I tested it Iron Bomb vs Granite Wall did around 100 DMG).
    So hf with farming tons of mats for destroying 1 wall/foundation. Which is pain cause of the harvest dmg adjustment.

    My suggestion:

    Version 1:
    - Lower the spirit spawns and create new ways to get spirits
    (PVE: by killing MiniBoss/Bosses or Rare Mobs)
    (PVP: Killing for example collectiong dogtags and extract it into spirits for your tree)
    Carefull: You need to reach a certain level to either drop such dogtags and the killer should have a certain level too e.g, level 20)
    For Avoiding exploiting

    - Adjust numbers for filling the tree with spirits

    - Once the tree is full make it that there is a big countdown that other faction can try to stop them by winning.
    (but fix sieging in general, must have) + a big reckoning wave comes to the winner that has a walkers etc. but also a lost boss which is tanky as hell.


    Version 2:

    Your fraction has to fulfill multiple challenges to win that saga round.

    - Spirit to 100k (like version 1 maybe without the reckoning part tho)
    - Research a certain amount of steps (For example all T4 tools or maybe everything if they would higher the spark drops and make the game less grindy so that you can research everything in a month easily if you have a good activity.
    - Gathering Special Artifacts from dungeons and keep them in your fraction base on a socket.
    - Capture and hold all Outpost for a certain amount of time.
    - Having special gods weapons in the fraction possession


    The ideal rend game for me:

    Make a good balanced PvPvE round based game with a healthy amount of grinding with special events.
    (Reckoning is one of those events, Outposts aswell but the rewards are kinda low, I am thinking more about special legendary
    items, weapons.) World Bosses Spawns or some special tame spawns would make the game more interesting for the PvE part
    but can also be a reason to force more people in a certain area.
    Closing Sagas should reward every single player but the winner should get "more" out of it tho. (otherwise no ambition)
    I like the Ascension Points but maybe something else like mount skins. (Skins work for every single game aslong you don't have to pay or if you have to pay then adjust the numbers or make a good compromise that you can pay with AP or something).
    Having good visited servers instead of many empty or poorly visited once.



    Many people like this graphic design and the basic idea behind the gameplay but the balancing is super important.
    You guys work hard and drop every week patches. Keep going guys.

    PS: pls don't judge my poor english. see ya
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